For a while I thought that Canadians had nothing in common except the fact nobody there, with the exception of a boatload of hippies, was American. I whimiscally decided that, in order to be taken seriously, a country needs someone outside the country to hate it (besides the Quebecois)–and everybody was ignoring them. So I’ve been politely loathing Canada and things Canadian as my bit to help out Canadian sovereignty. Since every Canadian I met seemed to despise my country for being so violent, blah blah blah, I thought it a cry for attention and was willing to throw you lot a bone.
However, Grant McCracken undermines my efforts when he writes:
Plainly and simply, our neighbour needed us to close ranks, show solidarity, and present a single face to the dithering world community.
Er, no. If you’re really feeling indebted for those years of protection (which would assume we were doing this purely out of the kindness of our heart instead of needing a conveniently safe place to put the DEW Line), nothing says “thank you” like cash–maybe all that money you save on prescription drugs and not having any police since everyone up there is pure as the wind-driven snow, which I gather you have much experience with.
Seriously, just because we were determined to start a war on the thinnest of evidence doesn’t mean you’re less a friend (or a bratty younger brother) if you don’t follow us in. That’s like saying if Americans all started drinking heavily and going for a dip in the ocean, it would be Canada’s job to do the same to show solidarity to the world.
If you think it was right to go to war anyway because Saddam was a bad guy and for some reason was more important than all the other bad guys out there, fine. Criticize your government on that basis. But quite frankly it’s stupid to do it just because your ally has a yen. If that were so, how much shame would you put on the US (or, for that matter, yourselves) over the Suez crisis? I don’t hear anybody rushing to say Canada needed to put in troops in a land grab because you got a system of common laws from the UK and share a monarch.
If Canada were to say “Hey, we won’t go into Afghanistan because, well, thanks for the low, low prices on all the F-18s, but hey, we don’t want to become a target for the next 9/11, eh,” that would be ingratitude. That was the place to stand up and show solidarity. But to make a judgment that evidence of a threat from Saddam is insufficient, particularly when history has proven that judgment right and the American (and, honestly, mine at the time) judgment wrong, is not something to criticize.
Now, if you make the argument that the decision was taken on this visceral anti-Americanism you describe, the reasoning might be worthy of criticism. But so far, this is one of the few things I think Canada can feel just a bit smug aboot.
And remember, I hate Canada. Politely.
Sandy Smith 
If a country should feel shame at not sending troops to help out an ally, how come we didn’t send a carrier down to cover the Royal Navy during that little spat about the Faulklands? One carrier could have prevented serious loss of life from those exocet attacks.
Off topic – EXOCETS. Who are the dangerous mavericks of the world? How many NATO members have had ships damaged or sunk by Harpoons?
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Actually, I’d kinda like to see an article outlining why, exactly, we didn’t back the Brits up with a Nimitz during that little fracas. Were we trying not to insult the Brits, or did we not have one to spare at the time from harassing the Red Navy? I was a bit young then to be aware of that kind of subtlety.
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That was me, above, BTW.
McCracken’s main point about not reviling Americans is reasonably well made, though. I don’t agree with the tenets of French foreign policy, but I don’t attribute that to stupidity, so much as a different frame of view. We’ve each got our group-think, and that’s a far cry from stupidity.
It is always fair to call us ignorant, however. Just remember that that’s a two way street, my syrup eating friends.
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Why exactly does America hate Candada so much?
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Your question assumes that, in fact, much of the US of A pays any attention at all to Canada. I’d say most people don’t, or when they do, they assume it’s something vaguely like the US except a red flag and more women on the money.
My hate came purely about as an attempt to support your sovereignty by giving Canada what real countries have–people who hate them for no good reason.
Oh, plus every Canadian I’d met was so wonderfully defensive about their nationality, as if I’d look at someone with the same clothes, general level of bathing, language, and–let’s face it–accent, and I’d magically intuit that they weren’t just another Amurkin (or carefully phrase all my speech so as not to assume the nationality of my interloculator on the 1/1000th chance that they were a Canuck, or, as they like to say when trying to claim US-like status, a “(north) AMERICAN”). So the reaction, of course, just begs for me to tweak them on purpose.
I’m not sure why the South Park guys took them on, but I’m betting it was because Canada-bashing is sufficiently surrealist–I mean, who hates Canada? So hence the funny.
Plus, of course, their heads really do flap like that.
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Ok so why do people take the p**s out of canadians. I read somewhere…
“It is true Avril LaVigne does infact by milk out of a packet like other Canadian scum…”
Packet as opposed to carton I assume. And other stuff which I can’t remember.
And what is wrong with their accents. The only thing I notice is when they say “aboot” instead of “about”, and a lot of people talk like that in cornwall.
I know that south park take the mick out of Candada, (quote: “Blame Candad!”), I don’t know why though. And Homer Simpson was talking about them and said “Candada, who has never had a girlfriend…I’m just saying”.
I havent read all of the posts here, but I don’t know much about the country but I did read somewhere they have anti-Americanism views. How far does this go? Do Canadian civillians have guns like many Americans etc, or is that just a misconception?
Thanks.
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I’ve gotta say, I have a blast reading these things because quite frankly, I’m usually the only Canadian here. So let me set some records straight:
+We don’t hate Americans, we hate your government.
+We didn’t go to war because all of the treatise and everything we had legally signed to said /not/ to. American government wanted us to rip them up without having any solid proof of why we should go. Ex. Never finding any weapons of mass destruction
+I watched the South Park movie, and I laughed my ass off. Really, I loved it. ost Canadians do.
+We’re defensive about out culture because so many people have simply assumed over time that we /are/ like the Americans. We’re not. In fact, we’re incredably different. One of the major ways is in how we react to people making fun of us. The Americans get pissed (not that I blame them), Canadians meanwhile know they opinion of yourself is more important then opinion of yourself from anothers perspective. We stay out of other peoples business, and send aid when they need it. That’s it, end of story.
+Look at the records and you will see that only one in every 10’000 Canadians owns a gun. (Not including Law Enforcment). Canadians have more of a knife style then that of a gun. God knows why, even I own a knife. ( It’s very pretty! 😀 )
+Side note: I don’t care how far North you go, you will never, ever meet a Canadian who lives in an igloo. Most people have /made/ them as kids, like Americans build snow-men, but we don’t live in them. You would be surprised how often I get asked that.
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As a canadian I agree 100% with waht maikafuiniel just said. Oh and its ok if you guys hate quebec and manitoba (we dont like them either cause they always try leaving) Quebec being the canadian texas.
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Oh and one more note, one of the writers for the simpsons is candian so no offence is taken from any jokes there.
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I’ve actually never heard of Manitoba trying to leave. I know there’s the Albertan Seperationist Party, and the Western Seperationist party, but nothing in particular for Manioba. ‘ll have to look into it.
🙂 I love it when the Simpsons makes fun of Canada. Maybe I shouldn’t, but it’s funny. Plain and simple.
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Hi, you see I laughed at the simpsons gags and such, but I’ve never really understood it. Nor why so many American Tv Shows, and websites put across the message “We hate Candada”. I’ve always thought it was some deep rooted argument and both sides take the p**s out of eachother when they can.
As for living in igloos – I’ve never heard that before.
And you said you don’t hate them you just hate their government. What is it about their government? and also I thought most Americans don’t like the government now because of the war so arn’t you fighting for the same thing? New leadership for America.
Apparently our Queen has some sort of ownership over Canada and you have her face on your coins, whats that about – what do the brits have in connection with Canada?
Also why does Michael Moore hate small buisnesses?
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Well, it’s kind of a deep seed thing. Some (I’m not saying you, or your friends, it’s a general term) like to think of Canada as America’s little brother. They think we’re just weak, we think they’re just mean. Again, general terms.
And yeah, I’ve heard things about igloos loads of times. People wondering if I really say “Zead”, “Chesterfield”, etc… and if I really eat Poutine. It’s funny to me, but since they’re /actually/ serious, kind of insulting as well.
Not all Americans hate their government, and the reason /I/ hate their government is because of various reasons. “Mad Cow” was insanity. Japan, for instance, has over 50 cases of Mad Cow every year; but the Americans blocked off /our/ trade and influenced almost all outher countries to block off all /their/ trade as well. It’s one of our most #1 resources, and the American government tried to stop us from trading because we wouldn’t join in their war. We refused to do so because it would mean ripping up several treaties that we had signed, with absolutly no evidence to support the American view-point. The American government, meanwhile, was using Fox news to tell people that they found weapons of mass destruction, though they never did, and if you wanted to know the truth you had to visit an obscure part of their website to see the retraction. Simple fact, I have several American friends. I like them. I do not like the current government, nor Bush. That’s all I was saying.
As for the Queen, we have her as a figurehead only. During the 1800’s Canada was part of the British Commonwealth, but we decided we would rather be our own country with our own laws. We are great friends with Britain, but in our government the Queen, and any British person, have absolutly no part in the leading or controlling of Canada. Her head is on our coin so that we can remember her, and the royal family, who /started/ Canada.
As for Michael Moore and small buisnesses, I really have no clue. 🙂
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Ok now thats all sorted out – thanks – what do I talk about now???
Or do I just fade into the background…
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lol I don’t know. You could all go back to Americans arguing for and against Canada, and I’ll just sit back and watch! 😀
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MUWHAHAHAHA *points and laughes at American gov* Turns out that Mad Cow crap you tried to put us through has been thrown back at you! 😀 You were expecting us to go belly-up in that market, now everybody is taking Canadian beef except you Americans, so now you have not only a competator, litterally /the/ competitor.
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Seriously now, Wtf?
Who had mad cow disease?
I had it for a while but I grew out of it.
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Actually, the Mad Cow in the US came from Canada. Feeding sheep and cow brain to cattle has been illegal in the US for decades, which is why we haven’t had the problems that Europe and Canada, with its European-like system, have had.
Sorry if for a change our government gets it right, but you earned that one.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HEV/is_3_31/ai_112724930
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Actually- the first Mad Cow was in Alberta, and came from the US. The second was born in the US, and came to Canada, then back to the states as well. We don’t know WHEN they got Mad Cow, but both were originally from the States.
Not only that but when the second one came about (and before they got the idea that it was in Canada), they tried to do a cover up. After weeks of them reporting as loud as they could about Canada and our meat problems, they said “It will blow over- like it did in Canada” But it never had.
P.S. Japan has over 50 cases of Mad Cow per year. How come you haven’t blocked trade with them?
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Okay, my last post made no sense. Here’s the bit: Both were born in States, both moved to Canada, one moved back.
American gov made as much of a hoot about it as possible on television, trying to belittle Canada after we said “no” to joining the war. When it was thrown back at them, they tried to make it seem as insignificant as possible- until realizing the cow had spent time in Canada. Then another sudden thing all over T.V. about it.
And the Japan thing still stands.
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Do you have a source on any of that?
The story I linked to explicitly says that the “American” mad cow was born in Canada, and the Canadian official admits it. However, the US official goes out of his way to say that it’s not a Canadian issue, and this occurred after the US border was reopened to Canadian beef.
Also, I could only find the one article on the origin of the mad cow, but many articles of Canada hotly contesting that it was too early to tell. The confirmed Canadian origin of the cow barely made a ripple in the US press.
As to Japan–again, source?
Obviously, our beef imports from Japan are dwarfed by our beef imports from just about everywhere else, and include mainly Kobe beef, which is not exactly commonly consumed given the price.
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… and if you don’t believe the US press, believe your own government:
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/disemala/bseesb/situatione.shtml
Scroll down to the Latest Information for January 6.
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Further information: Japan has a blanket testing system, unlike the US or Canada. Like Canada, it has recently revised its feed rules to prevent BSE.
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=312005
That being said, I’m not sure why they haven’t been reciprocated on the beef ban they still maintain against the US. Perhaps it’s because of their blanket testing?
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Ok this is depressing. Lets talk about something more uplifting… And interesting…
Like my nose… Everyone have a good look. What do you think…?
You can poke it if you like…
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Or if you’re feeling adventurous you can have a little prod of my ear lobes…
Yes I’ve been eating cow brains…
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what why has noone replied. Do we have to be serious to get a response???
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There are, of course, more posts on this blog than this one. Many even more scintillating and insightful than this…for example, you can discuss how children are our future, and how it’s rather a crusty, germ-filled future akin to letting a troop of Rhesus monkeys loose in the neighborhood.
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Its been 5 days and I havent talked crap.
I don’t know how I got onto this site, and I don’t know why I keep coming back.
I could stop if I wanted to, I just don’t want to.
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….Well, there you go. I am canadian. I am not going to yell or anything, if you do not like my country, then fine. But I just wanted to clear something up, not every canadain hates America. And the ones that do, well, they either have a good reason, or are just stupid. One reason I dislike America is the fact of the bias you have on my country ( live in igloo, stupid, eat blubber, have a beaver, ect). I know alot of America’s that I like, and I have nothing wrong with all of Americans. I do have a problem with your government, the arrogence of most Americans (not all of them). If you would look in history, look at the war of 1812, when Americans tried to take over Canada, three times. All that because American’s believed in Manifest Destiny, which they were to control everything. That is something that most Canadians don’t like, although yes it is in the past. But most Americans tend to be very controling, think they’re country is better, when we should be the same, and are very rude with a lack of a better word. Oh, and for what you said about Americans not in Canada, well duh, it is canada, and you will find alot of canadains here. Think about it. I’m not trying to put your country down, just stating some facts, if you want to say that most Canadians hate America, think about the reasons why.
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Funny, Americans pretend to be indifferent towards Canada. But when it comes down to it, on every forum I’ve been. You reply every time to what Canadians have to say. Good or bad about your government or otherwise.
The US needs to feel they are doing the right thing, Iraq for example. When ever someone from another country, be it france, Canada, Germany pipes up and says something negative about Iraq, the US whines about it and then says something to the effect of “You’re Canadian, I don’t care what you think. But in actuallity they care quite alot.
I think thats the true test of a neighbour and friend.
Just my thoughts.
Dylan
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Are Americans caring about Canada or are they caring about the US?
I mean, if you write on how you think that Canadian pig farmer subsidies are unconscionable in a civilized country, do a bunch of Americans chime in to ring down holy hell on the hated Canadians, or do they mostly ignore it? And if an American were to reply to such a post saying that Canadian pig policy is horrible, do you think Canadians would just let it lie or respond to it? And do Canadians find it OK to feel they’re doing the wrong thing? Or will they defend their nationalized health system to the rhetorical death?
Pot, look at kettle. You might find you’re color-coordinated.
If you read the text of the blog entry, you’ll find that I’m explicitly *not* criticizing Canada for failing to toe the line on Iraq.
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If you read my post carefully, it wasn’t directly about Iraq only using Iraq as a good example.
Simply put, we don’t hate each other (Canadian and Americans) otherwise we wouldn’t care so much what the other thought. This entire blog from the beginning states how you believe that the US has this indifference towards Canada and you yourself try to follow suit and say “I’ll you lot a bone”. Being that you are so gracious to do so. But true indifference would mean this blog would have never existed
Believe me, if I post but a hint of something about Bush on other forums I get a response from republicans. Whether it’s good or bad, doesn’t matter.
This Canadian hate isn’t really hate. Afterall, why would Canada care unless her countries people were concerned about our friend the US and why would the US care what we have to say in the least unless we had this cross border relationship.
“Smug aboot” nothing (Except for our Canadian Hockey teak kicking the US’s ass). I am agreeing with you to a point. We are like a little brother to the big bad USA.
So big brother, where next?
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Not sure if by “blog” you mean “this blog post” because I assure you, all but one other post on this blog fails to mention Canada at all. It’s pretty much dictated by my whim. Hell, the next post you see above is about prostitution in New Zealand (as well as Joss Whedon’s Firefly series).
I’m probably not a typical American. For one thing, your average Amurkin is fairly isolationist in sentiment. I’m not…which is unusual given that I’m also politically libertarian. So as an internationalist I’m going to recognize that Canada exists (and after the haugty tone I got from a Canadian lawyer trying to tell me how to do Web usability at work today, still hating you…politely).
Case in point: NAFTA is much derided here for TAKIN’ MAH JAHRB and sending it to Mexicans. The fact that quite a lot of those jobs, especially from Detroit, have gone north to Canada is overlooked. I’d argue it says much more about the inherent racism of protectionists, but it may also speak to not giving Canada its due as not-U.S.
My advice to Canada, which I fully expect to be taken as the arrogant Americanism for which it truly is: really, have confidence in yourself. I see a lot of analysis vis-a-vis America that should really just ignore us. Don’t compare Rush and Michael Jackson (except to say: Rush is a little pretentious but otherwise unobjectionable, while Michael Jackson should be nailed to a tree because, seriously, he’s way more freaky than he is talented). Drop the Canadian content laws for your radio stations and just trust that in the end, there will be a crap boy band or two from Canada who will make sweet, sweet bank in return for getting shafted by the Canadian version of the RIAA.
I mean, one of the many things I don’t like about my own country is the fact that we still have an inferiority complex vis-a-vis Britain and Europe (well, mainly France) despite the fact that we’re equal to all of them put together economically, and vastly superior militarily. And we are more than well-represented in world popular culture. Enough already with the reflexive “whah don’t yawl go home to yer Euroslums with your opinion.” Except, of course, for the French, because really, everybody ought to slag them as a matter of principle. So this big brother’s message is: don’t be like us. Really, it’s not as fun as it looks. And I don’t think it looks that fun.
(This comment partially brought to you by sweet, sweet Mexican beer.)
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I think Quebecois should be allowed to devolve fromma Canada…as long as they leave the land! =)
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Believe me, we aren’t like Americans. For the most part, except for those like you with some actual intellect, outside of that recieve from your own countries school systems.
I am very patrioticly Canadian. But I also don’t want to give the idea that I absolutely hate the US. Because that wouldn’t be true. I enjoyed camping there when I was younger and most of the people are very sincere and have great hospitality. ( After sifting through the “bullshit campfire” stories that is).
Which everyone has a few of I guess.
Why do you blog? Is there a need for you to gain more knowlege? Or to feel that you are different from your other American counterparts? I find people are so worried about being themselves these days that they often go out looking to be different.
Maybe thats why we have terrorism and all of these other things in the world, because people are worried that they won’t be heard and their exsistance as it is or was on this planet will mean nothing. What will your blog mean in the long run?
Obviously it has gotten to some peoples eye’s to read. So you’ve succeeded in passing on a message and having people agree with you, disagree or be indifferent.
I can have an opinion about the US or my own country and that doesn’t mean I hate either. Lots of people make the mistake of believing this is the way it works.
You are correct about finding self worth. I love my country, in ways I hope it’s a good country and I’m glad we don’t bend over and take it from the US, that we actually stand up for what we believe.
All opinions aside though. If you are trying to understand yourself and your place in this world, like everyone is. It’s best to have a look internally rather then externally. Or maybe thats what this blog is about? Externalising the internal?
I’m a big fan or Bruce Lee. Besides all of the Martial arts stuff. You should read some of his philosophies. They are pretty cool.
Did I really make a difference posting this? Heh, who cares. It’s probably just run of the mouth conversation.
Dylan
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Two words legitimize my hatred of Canada: Carolyn Parrish.
Maybe because she calls all Americans “Bastards” and proclaims her hatred of America in Parliment.
Not just a hatred of our government, but a hatred of American Citizens for voting Bush back into office.
your PM and President did the right thing by bitch slapping her back into the gutter she lives in and issuing an apology.
Sick of Canadian cultural elists calling American “arrogant” in our attitude while refusing to accept the fact that America has no monopoly on arrogance.
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Something you might find intresting. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2004-11-18-mad-cow_x.htm
About Carolyn Parrish? She’s an idiot and the parliment gives her too long a leash. Even if she’s using her freedom of speech. She’s also letting Canadians foot the bill as she runs at the mouth about the US.
Using my freedom of expression. Her ass should be booted to the curb promptly. So should the liberal party. But thats another story for another day.
Now, if you are silly enough to listen to what she has to say. Because I am Canadian and I don’t really listen to her. Then I have to wonder about your mentallity. I’m very patriotically Canadian and I’ve learned I don’t have to hate another country to be that way.
Carolyn Parrish is and will always be a dolt. She’s outgrown the will to change
Dylan
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I am 14,I am British and live in Britain, but i am part Canadian and and the piss riped out of me at school. I go to Canada every year to viste my family in Digby, Nova Scotia.
Let me put some things straight:
Yes they do say aboot by so do scotland and Ireland and half of Oxfordshire.
No they don’t live in igloos
They are the kindest, tidiest, nicest, people i know and the country is so beautiful to.
And i say thanks for putting up with this country for so long, and for still being in the commonwealth.
Does everyone agree or are you going to be hipmotised by American propagander.
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Random thoughts:
Some Americans pronounce Washington – Warshington and roof – ruff…Don’t know why.
I believe Dan Rather is responsible for the death of Anwar Sadat.
Watching CNN I could tell the building was going to collapse from 1000’s of miles away yet firefighters charged in there anyway.
I remember wathching a news interview before 9-11, of a Muslim-looking type Cab Driver and he was talking about people flying into a building…
Why not find that interview and investigate how he knew about that?
…and I’m sure not all west-coast Canadians are all that proud to be Canadians either. (Maybe Paul Martin will improve things).
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Hello, I’m just reading this a bit and came across some guy who thinks he knows what the average canadian thinks.
Quote: “Oh and its ok if you guys hate quebec and manitoba (we dont like them either cause they always try leaving) Quebec being the canadian texas.”
I fail to see how one can compare texas to quebec only on the separatist issue. Perhaps the said poster has no real idea what being a french canadian is like. So I would suggest that any “french bashing” (which to me is a sign of blatant ignorance) should be kept with your own narrow-minded circle of friends.
Oh and to straighten things out, I’m an average quebecois and I still love this country and my province despite its politics.
So yeah, basically you might think about shutting up before dissing your own people (because to my knowledge quebecois are still canadian).
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The Country the World Forgot – Again
By Kevin Myers
The Daily Telegraph, London
April 21, 2002
LONDON – Until the deaths last week of four Canadian soldiers accidentally killed by a U.S. warplane in Afghanistan, probably almost no one outside their home country had been aware that Canadian troops were deployed in the region. And as always, Canada will now bury its dead, just as the rest of the world as always will forget its sacrifice, just as it always forgets nearly everything Canada ever does.
It seems that Canada’s historic mission is to come to the selfless aid both of its friends and of complete strangers, and then, once the crisis is over, to be well and truly ignored. Canada is the perpetual wallflower that stands on the edge of the hall, waiting for someone to come and ask her for a dance. A fire breaks out, she risks life and limb to rescue her fellow dance-goers, and suffers serious injuries. But when the hall is repaired and the dancing resumes, there is Canada, the wallflower still, while those she once helped glamorously cavort across the floor, blithely neglecting her yet again.
That is the price Canada pays for sharing the North American continent with the United States, and for being a selfless friend of Britain in two global conflicts. For much of the 20th century, Canada was torn in two different directions: It seemed to be a part of the old world, yet had an address in the new one, and that divided identity ensured that it never fully got the gratitude it deserved.
Yet its purely voluntary contribution to the cause of freedom in two world wars was perhaps the greatest of any democracy. Almost 10% of Canada’s entire population of seven million people served in the armed forces during the First World War, and nearly 60,000 died. The great Allied victories of 1918 were spearheaded by Canadian troops, perhaps the most capable soldiers in the entire British order of battle.
Canada was repaid for its enormous sacrifice by downright neglect, its unique contribution to victory being absorbed into the popular memory as somehow or other the work of the “British.” The Second World War rovided a re-run. The Canadian navy began the war with a half dozen vessels, and ended up policing nearly half of the Atlantic against U-boat attack.
More than 120 Canadian warships participated in the Normandy landings, during which 15,000 Canadian soldiers went ashore on D-Day alone. Canada finished the war with the third-largest navy and the fourth-largest air force in the world.
The world thanked Canada with the same sublime indifference as it had the previous time. Canadian participation in the war was acknowledged in film only if it was necessary to give an American actor a part in a campaign in which the United States had clearly not participated — a touching scrupulousness which, of course, Hollywood has since abandoned, as it has any notion of a separate Canadian identity.
So it is a general rule that actors and filmmakers arriving in Hollywood keep their nationality — unless, that is, they are Canadian. Thus Mary Pickford, Walter Huston, Donald Sutherland, Michael J. Fox, William Shatner, Norman Jewison, David Cronenberg and Dan Aykroyd have in the popular perception become American, and Christopher Plummer, British. It is as if, in the very act of becoming famous, a Canadian ceases to be Canadian, unless she is Margaret Atwood, who is as unshakably Canadian as a moose, or Celine Dion, for whom Canada has proved quite unable to find any takers.
Moreover, Canada is every bit as querulously alert to the achievements of its sons and daughters as the rest of the world is completely unaware of them. The Canadians proudly say of themselves — and are unheard by anyone else — that 1% of the world’s population has provided 10% of the world’s peacekeeping forces. Canadian soldiers in the past half century have been the greatest peacekeepers on Earth — in 39 missions on UN mandates, and six on non-UN peacekeeping duties, from Vietnam to East Timor, from Sinai to Bosnia.
Yet the only foreign engagement that has entered the popular non- Canadian imagination was the sorry affair in Somalia, in which out-of- control paratroopers murdered two Somali infiltrators. Their regiment was then disbanded in disgrace — a uniquely Canadian act of self- abasement for which, naturally, the Canadians received no international credit.
So who today in the United States knows about the stoic and selfless friendship its northern neighbour has given it in Afghanistan?
Rather like Cyrano de Bergerac, Canada repeatedly does honourable things for honourable motives, but instead of being thanked for it, it remains something of a figure of fun.
It is the Canadian way, for which Canadians should be proud, yet such honour comes at a high cost.
This week, four more grieving Canadian families knew that cost all too tragically well.
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That last post wast touching. I had a grandfather that volunteered for both first and second world war then retired as a police officer in Sask.
I think Canada is a constant reminder of the fact both Canada and the USA started as British Royal Colonies. Some American (remember the loyalists kicked out after the revolution)didn’t want to be a colony. Canada did. After all is said and done, Canad is the largest single nation on the planet (if you don’t give the autonomous state bulk to russia) and we did it without leaving the Commonwealth. We have achieved a peaceful nation with high living standard etc etc etc all while the USA did their own unique thing. I think it p**ses off our southern cousins.
We arrived socially at similar levels of personal wealth for our citizens without a lot of the heartbreak and suffering our US cousins had because we weren’t trying to “be different” than the old world.
I think Americans hate us , when they choose to think of us, because we look like a nicer version of them without the scars that made them bitter.
I like Americans personally. We have American relatives. We don’t like republicans and are proud to elect a constant stream of “liberal” politicians. But Albertans don’t like it (they want to be Americans) and constanly blow the relationship troubles up for political points.
Face it, we are two brothers who did different life paths and there’s bickering and whining from both sides.
Personally I wouldn’t live in the States for safety concerns but don’t necessarily feel blessed with our Taxation and bueracratic overburdern.
Just a thought or two.
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Here are my thoughts, first of all, okay canada has some killer hockey. but that is about it.One thing you canadiens must realize is that no one cares around the world, what is going on in canada. shit, most people think you are the fifty first state. thank goddness you are not. all you little canadien bastards better be damn greatful you are neighbors to the worlds most powerful empire. you better be damn greatful that the only military you have is south of your border. so next time they are playing the United States of America’s national anthem, you should stand up and thank god that you are supposedly out allys. GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Hey I would just like to say not all Canadians or Canadiens hate America. It really doesn’t bother me when I here sterotypical jokes about us like aboot or eh?, it’s the same stuff we say about you like your all gun loving hicks. Like I don’t think anybody really thinks that we all say eh and no-one here really thinks every american is married to his sister. The only thing that does annoy me is when people say things like we are traitors for not going to Iraq. We went to afganistan and fought becasue you where under attack and we knew that, but we’re not going to show up for every war just becasue you wanna take over a country, look at vietnam we didn’t go there and look who ended up right on that one (we where) looks like iraq is going the same route. The only problem I see is that you think your system of goverment is right no matter what and everyone should copy it. We pretty much have the same system and I love Canada but im not gonna go beat up vietnam till they go capitalist, or go bomb iraq till they say what I want. Iraq had nothing to do with WMD’s or 911, it was oil, there’s no proof linking anything about sadam to 911. the saudi’s had more of a link then saddam and you certianly fixed that… ohh wait you did ass nothing how aboot that eh?
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I have a few good friend who lives in the United States and they state that they are ashamed to be American so the way I look at it the proof was displayed in your last election 50% of Americans are good people and 50% have failed to learn to read and write or are just so ignorant they have no use in this world. Over 2,000 dead men so we can save $1 at the tanks. I feel so sorry for those people that were born American and became brainwashed – I pray every day and thank God my ancestors left that Godless land in 1765
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Ok to start off, I’m american, i live about 40 minutes away from the border (quebec) and i got to a quebec boardin school…the lessons are in english surprisingly…
One, i doubt that 50% of americans are illiterate…two…brainwashed??? all rity canuk, i think most canuks are brainwashed since they think they actually help out in the world…lets see…how many canadians won the noble peace prize? ONE…i think its over 50 americans who one, but dont quote me on that, but i know americans have the most noble PEACE prizes. Oh,we are so ignorant and have “no use in the world”…lets see…largest navy…largest army…largest air force…a shit load of weapons…and sounds like your friends are traitors JUST because Bush got elected??
i hate him also, but he’ll be out in four years…and for godless land? We have a song called GOD BLESS AMERICA…i dont see people singing GOD BLESS CANADA…
And for the Conquest…it wasn’t canadians who left “that godless land”…It was France VS Britian…Back then it was NEW FRANCE… so technically, your ancestors are british, or french, depending where u live…but…I do agree with you about the Iraq War…It’s a sad waste of life, but thats only the american death toll…imagine the Iraqi and the British, and the uh…”Coalition of the Willing” and i doubt any one will reply to this since…the last post was over a month ago…WE ARE NOT FUCKING ASHAMED OF BEING AMERICAN…You should b shot for even suggesting that…maybe your friends are, but theyre probably illegal aliens any ways
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there’s nothing black and white like american ideals.
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i live in canada
canada sucks!
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Well, once Georgie boy signs that draft, Canada’s gonna look awfully good to the Internet Armchair Generals down south. That’s gonna be fun to watch!
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The country the world forgot – again
By Kevin Myers
The Daily Telegraph, London
April 21, 2002
As our country honours the last of its four dead soldiers, we reprint a remarkable tribute to Canada’s record of quiet valour in wartime that appeared in the Telegraph, one of Britain’s largest circulation newspapers.
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LONDON – Until the deaths last week of four Canadian soldiers accidentally killed by a U.S. warplane in Afghanistan, probably almost no one outside their home country had been aware that Canadian troops were deployed in the region. And as always, Canada will now bury its dead, just as the rest of the world as always will forget its sacrifice, just as it always forgets nearly everything Canada ever does.
It seems that Canada’s historic mission is to come to the selfless aid both of its friends and of complete strangers, and then, once the crisis is over, to be well and truly ignored. Canada is the perpetual wallflower that stands on the edge of the hall, waiting for someone to come and ask her for a dance. A fire breaks out, she risks life and limb to rescue her fellow dance-goers, and suffers serious injuries. But when the hall is repaired and the dancing resumes, there is Canada, the wallflower still, while those she once helped glamorously cavort across the floor, blithely neglecting her yet again.
That is the price Canada pays for sharing the North American continent with the United States, and for being a selfless friend of Britain in two global conflicts. For much of the 20th century, Canada was torn in two different directions: It seemed to be a part of the old world, yet had an address in the new one, and that divided identity ensured that it never fully got the gratitude it deserved.
Yet its purely voluntary contribution to the cause of freedom in two world wars was perhaps the greatest of any democracy. Almost 10% of Canada’s entire population of seven million people served in the armed forces during the First World War, and nearly 60,000 died. The great Allied victories of 1918 were spearheaded by Canadian troops, perhaps the most capable soldiers in the entire British order of battle.
Canada was repaid for its enormous sacrifice by downright neglect, its unique contribution to victory being absorbed into the popular memory as somehow or other the work of the “British.” The Second World War rovided a re-run. The Canadian navy began the war with a half dozen vessels, and ended up policing nearly half of the Atlantic against U-boat attack.
More than 120 Canadian warships participated in the Normandy landings, during which 15,000 Canadian soldiers went ashore on D-Day alone. Canada finished the war with the third-largest navy and the fourth-largest air force in the world.
The world thanked Canada with the same sublime indifference as it had the previous time. Canadian participation in the war was acknowledged in film only if it was necessary to give an American actor a part in a campaign in which the United States had clearly not participated — a touching scrupulousness which, of course, Hollywood has since abandoned, as it has any notion of a separate Canadian identity.
So it is a general rule that actors and filmmakers arriving in Hollywood keep their nationality — unless, that is, they are Canadian. Thus Mary Pickford, Walter Huston, Donald Sutherland, Michael J. Fox, William Shatner, Norman Jewison, David Cronenberg and Dan Aykroyd have in the popular perception become American, and Christopher Plummer, British. It is as if, in the very act of becoming famous, a Canadian ceases to be Canadian, unless she is Margaret Atwood, who is as unshakably Canadian as a moose, or Celine Dion, for whom Canada has proved quite unable to find any takers.
Moreover, Canada is every bit as querulously alert to the achievements of its sons and daughters as the rest of the world is completely unaware of them. The Canadians proudly say of themselves — and are unheard by anyone else — that 1% of the world’s population has provided 10% of the world’s peacekeeping forces. Canadian soldiers in the past half century have been the greatest peacekeepers on Earth — in 39 missions on UN mandates, and six on non-UN peacekeeping duties, from Vietnam to East Timor, from Sinai to Bosnia.
Yet the only foreign engagement that has entered the popular non- Canadian imagination was the sorry affair in Somalia, in which out-of- control paratroopers murdered two Somali infiltrators. Their regiment was then disbanded in disgrace — a uniquely Canadian act of self- abasement for which, naturally, the Canadians received no international credit.
So who today in the United States knows about the stoic and selfless friendship its northern neighbour has given it in Afghanistan?
Rather like Cyrano de Bergerac, Canada repeatedly does honourable things for honourable motives, but instead of being thanked for it, it remains something of a figure of fun.
It is the Canadian way, for which Canadians should be proud, yet such honour comes at a high cost.
This week, four more grieving Canadian families knew that cost all too tragically well.
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and we are pros.no hollywood in canada,just quality.
Killing shot made at distance of 2,430 metres
Stephen Thorne
Canadian Press
A world-record killing shot by a Canadian sniper detachment in Afghanistan could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued when they left Edmonton last winter, the triggerman said in a recent interview. The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres.
But the U.S. rounds, they discovered, “fly farther, faster,” said Cpl. “Bill”, a 26-year-old native of Fogo Island, Nfld.
The two-man Canadian team, coupled with American Sgt. Zevon Durham of Greenville, S.C., made the kill from 2,430 metres, or nearly 2 1/2 kilometres, on the second shot.
This feat is the equivalent of standing at the foot of Yonge St. and hitting a target in the intersection of Yonge and Wellesley Sts., just north of College St.
The first shot blew a bag from the hand of their target, an Al Qaeda fighter walking on a road.
“He didn’t even flinch,” said Bill, who spoke on condition that his real name not be used.
“We made a correction and the next round hit exactly where we wanted it to. Well, a bit to the right.”
The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially accredited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan’s Shah-i-Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.
Soldier of Fortune magazine estimated the number of kills made by the Canadians after talking to several U.S. soldiers in Kandahar for a cover story in its August edition.
The snipers themselves will not confirm the figure.
But judging from accounts given by Canadians involved in the first major coalition offensive of the Afghan war, the figure of at least 20 sounds conservative.
The 800-strong 3rd battalion of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry is pulling out this month.
They’ll first go through a reintegration process on the Pacific island of Guam before heading home to Edmonton.
About 100 British Royal Marines, too, wrapped up their last combat mission in Afghanistan yesterday after four months in Afghanistan.
The five Canadian snipers, outfitted with British desert fatigues and an array of equipment from all over the world, were divided into two detachments that earned the respect of their American brothers-in-arms after helping rescue dozens of paratroopers pinned down by enemy fire.
The five have been nominated for one of the highest awards given by the United States military – the Bronze Star, two of them with Vs for Valour, marking exceptional bravery.
Awarding of the American medal, which was to have been done at a ceremony along with other Anaconda veterans in Kandahar in April, has been delayed by Canadian protocol officials.
But more important to the Canadians are the gestures from their American brethren who – while nearly killing them several times over with “friendly fire” – owe many lives to their shooting skills.
“They trusted us to do our job, without question,” said Master Cpl. “James,” a 31-year-old native of Kingsville, Ont., who like Cpl. Bill asked that his identity not be revealed.
At one point during a series of battles, one of the Canadians was without his rifle. Enemy bullets were hitting the earth all around. Mortars were dropping in front and behind them, some within 10 metres, bracketing their position and getting closer all the time. “They really hammered us,” said Bill. He tried to get to their rifles but couldn’t. Finally, an American sniper tossed him his rifle and said: “Here, you know how to use this better than I do.”
They held off the enemy until darkness descended and escaped.
“They were instrumental in helping us achieve our goals out there,” said 1st Lieut. Justin Overbaugh, 25, of Missoula, Mont., the soldier who recommended Bill and James for Bronze Stars.
“They are professionals; they are very good at what they do; they train hard, they are very mature, they are tactically and technically proficient so when it came time to do business, they were on,” he said. “If they told me I was going out right now, I’d be begging, kicking, screaming, crying for them to come with us.”
Bill and James said they pulled off several shots from 2,400 metres or more.
“Shots out that far are 60 per cent skill and 40 per cent luck, or vice versa,” said Bill. “Usually, it takes two or three rounds, sometimes five. “Normally, a sniper wouldn’t take that many shots, but they were out so far we felt confident they couldn’t tell where we were.”
One morning, the two Canadians were set up overlooking a compound when Al Qaeda fighters started “pouring out of buildings like ants.” Bill started shooting while James called in a mortar attack, followed by B-52, F-16 and Apache helicopter strikes.
In a separate incident, Bill and James found themselves looking up at a large dark object screaming out of the sky directly above them – a 220-kilogram American bomb.
“We hit the deck and covered our heads with our hands,” said James. The bomb landed 30 metres away, nose in, and never went off.
“By the grace of God, it was a dud,” said Bill. “It landed 15 metres from the B company (U.S. 101st Airborne Division) trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing.”
Capt. Paul Madej, Operation Enduring Freedom chaplain, who debriefed the Canadians, described them: “The Canadian snipers are professional, well-trained soldiers who walked into harm’s way and fulfilled their mission. They represent the best and they have our respect.”
With files from Associated Press
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